I feel like steppe ancestry could be native or super ancient. We know we share genetic similarities with europeans. But how can we be sure where 'steppe' comes from? Given how widespread steppe is in subcon i feel it is very ancient. Our population has always been so much larger than central asia that millenia of recorded invasions couldnt alter our genome. So i feel steppe likely arrived much before or during early IVC when our population had yet to grow so large. Rakhigarhi is but just one sample to guess the demographic makeup of entire ivc.
>>58983
>But how can we be sure where 'steppe' comes from?
And that is entite reason this nonsense falls or crumbles down, it could be that all Haplos are native and we just slept with bunch of steppe women or steppe was native, jeets are losing it over theories that are likely to change every decade
>>58983
>o i feel steppe likely arrived much before or during early IVC when our population had yet to grow so large. Rakhigarhi is but just one sample to guess the demographic makeup of entire ivc.
No steppe was found at any IVC sample. None.
>>58990
>While genetic studies confirm that the Bronze Age Steppe migration into India was heavily male-biased, modern Indians do carry Steppe DNA in their maternal lines, just in much smaller amounts compared to their paternal lines.
i think we have both
>>58999
>i think we have both
Sure? I think matrilineal lines are just in trace amounts, also the ai google search is bullshit, it pulls from useless sites.
>>58995
Its the other way round. I see people claiming R1a comes from steppe but all the studies i see merely talk about distribution and not origin. On wikipedia page of R1a, possible place of origin is 'Eurasia' i.e. entire asia and europe because they are not sure
>>59020
But no haplo cape from subcon, it is all migrant haplos, not even the one that peaks in dravidan populace, they came from africa about twice as long ago as others
>>58983
Jeets are ignorant that humans in their modern form has existed for more than 50k years. Muh steppe, muh ivc, muh adivasi
It takes less than a century to wipeout entire populations and replace them with other ethnicities.
>>59028
You are missing my point though, no one is saying go coom inside some dalit abbo, i am saying none of the haplos are native to subcon at all, it makes no sense to say "R1" is not from subcon
>>59030
This, we dont have any evidence that R1a is a actually hand in hands with the autosomal steppe, it could have been AASI or IVC or even something else entirely and other groups pretty much got rid of the component being heavier over years, its entirely possible even if not most probable
>>59027
>It takes less than a century to wipeout entire populations and replace them with other ethnicities.
Nah not really. We will all be muslims and speaking Chagatai or persian and carrying y haplogroup Q if it was that simple.
>>59039
Not really, you are conflating genetics and autosomal components with the political nignoggery, keep euch stutf aside when looking at arhcaeogenetics or precognitibe bias gets the best of you.
I do believe steppe comes from outside of India and if you look at india only the regions closer to central asia got mixed with steppe people
If steppe would have been native to subcon then we would definitely seen it throughout the subcon which is not the case
>>59042
But we do see it throughout subcon. Even dravidians couldn't remain untouched (they carry 5 to 15%). Also steppe's distribution is quite random. It has decent presence in zagros heavy NW but is in higher amounts in north central and gangetic plains.
>>59043
But I also do not believe that Aryan invasion bs those cumskin spew , the kuru homeland which is modern India has most steppe in whole subcon , if you go by cumskin logic of " more arya more steppe" then modern day brahmins would be obc of the region , steppe is relatively high in rors, jaats, jangids, kamboj etc
If we say vedic caste system is related to ivc then it doesn't make sense to as that it would mean "more zagros more arya" but still we have exceptions as rabari , kathi , lohana , gujjars are absurdly high zagros but most are considered LCs or obcs
>>59030
>Also why are you linking r1a to autosomal steppe?
I don't know, I think its maybe dogma. But from what I have heard online, pretty much everyone links r1a to steppe.
>How are you so sure
My argument was that since R1a is only found in the patrilineal lines, not the matrilineal (U,H,J,T something) lines (in trace amounts, okay, no need to be pedantic). If R1a was an indigenous thing, we would see much higher amounts of matrilineal lines. The misconception was that If R1a is not associated with steppe, you cannot draw the conclusion that the corresponding matrilineals lines were (U,H,J,T,). So I don't know what to think now.
>>59054
I think the anon who said there are the regional castes and castes of the equall stature mixed with each other often, maybe brahmins mixed with each other due to simolar roles but the warrior agro castes did not
>>59054
>steppe is relatively high in rors, jaats, jangids, kamboj etc
I've heard online that jaats were some kind of later arrival into the subcontinent from the steppe, so thats why they have more steppe, despite not having high caste. I don't know much on this, I am tamil, can any northie share his thoughts on the matter.
>>59050
Only a few Dravidians who are either SIBs , nairs and those tulunad bunts reddies are somewhat steppe and they are max 10-12 except SIBs who are kinda like baniyas of Gujarat or marwari , but as we know baniyas are high aasi then even chamars , so we could definitely say these groups where ancient north grps who could have migrated to south
>It has decent presence in zagros heavy NW but is in higher amounts in north central and gangetic plains.
Well it's half truth, north western grps are still more steppe than gangetics , but this it even proof it more that steppes were outside of subcon , the countless waves of steppe who after the fall of ivc moves towards ganges and made it their homeland
>>59062
The migration thing felt like bs for me honestly, it would not make sense for them to have non R1a haplo in that case, with rors i can still see some plausibility
>>59062
Well I am not sure about it tbh , some says jatts were scythian tribes
The thing is steppe was also relatively mixed as central Asian region is crossroad of many tribes, so what we need is further bifurcation of steppe , that what kind of steppes are that
>>59069
The migration theory would make a lot of sense if we saw Steppe peak on those who has R1a and not the rest of them, there are good chances jaats are native or migrated arround the same time everyone did
>>59061
It's speculated that they have an additional iron age steppe input from the scythians probably
>inb4 scythians have east asian which is absent in modern day jaat populations
Not all Scythians cultures had substantial east asian related ancestry. The scythians groups responsible for the creation of the Indo Scythian culture were closely related to the Kangjus, who didn't have east asian
>>59060
>explain its saturation in peoole who dont have R1a haplo
Aryan invasion theory does have an explanation for it.
>Steppe males arrive (R1a)>Kill off a lot of indigenous males, but not all (H,L,etc)>Steppe males reproduce with indigenous females (offspring R1a)>The children of steppe males and native female all had R1a>Many surviving indigenous males reproduce with the half steppe kids, thus introducing, H,L, etc back into the genepool.
Thus, you do have some people, who despite not having R1a have high steppe.
>>59072
Well yes I agree most steppe were kinda heterogeneous tbh just like today
Let's say the steppe in jatt and a bhumihar should be further studied for more precision
>>59077
Is the Bhumihar average much higher than Gangetic Brahmins and Rajputs? I think Kanyakubja Brahmins, Gaur Brahmins, Tyagis and Bhumihars all score similiar amounts of Steppe
I believe there were migrations and invasions too but migration were more and dynamic from both steppes and iranian zagros too , the ivc population has many components like anf , zagros , bmac , anatoliaon related
>>59078
>Aryan migration theory
If you accept that steppe corresponds to R1a, then it was either an invasion where indigenous males were killed, or a nair style mass cuckoldry event. (In all certainity the former)
>to a certain extent
Why only to a certain extent? It explains it perfecly, the only gap being the R1a- Steppe correspondence. If that is done, everything will make sense.
>>59079
Bhumihars of gangetics specially bihar score more steppe than rajputs some score more than Brahmins
Weirdly the most steppe brahmin I have come across as rajasthani specially parekh or pushkaran Brahmins which is weird as rajasthan is more farmer heavy
>>59084
>R1a- Steppe correspondence
Well because of this i said so as kashmiris who are fair skinned and are considered "High steppe" ( they are less than haryana and HP) have same level of R1a as Biharis as far as I know and even many southern are more R1a than Kashmiris
>>59091
>Well because of this i said so as kashmiris who are fair skinned and are considered "High steppe" ( they are less than haryana and HP) have same level of R1a as Biharis as far as I know and even many southern are more R1a than Kashmiris
Fair, but according to another anon (maybe you), the AASI component in kashmiris is different from the AASI component in south, since AASI was there for the longest time, it's not unreasonable to think that AASI in different regions may have had different adaptation to environment, and hence different skin colours, I'd expect the AASI in kashmir to have evolved to be whiter than AASI in south.
>>59094
I ve had not said this tbh about aasi but this is a very good point , aasi could not possibly be a single population as subcon is too big , and environment does play a high effect in phenotype determination
>>59095
>>59094
Amazing points tbh anon , caste kangers are really low iq faggots who can't digest these details,then always belive that genotype=phenotype, but this is not true in most extent
>>59096
>aasi could not possibly be a single population as subcon is too big
I think AASI was a "single population" (Whatever that may mean) in the same sense that all humans out of africa are a "single population". Sure, they at one point, might have been one group that moved out and into a certain region, but since the amount of time was really long, and distances were really hard to traverse back then, we would see a lot of environmental adaptations and founders effect. I'm fairly sure AASI wasn't really homogenous despite being "a single population".
>>59093
Haven't seen any pareekh qpadm runs but a private sample on g25 is the least aasi shifted and most steppe shifted among all brahmin groups. It scores 21 AASI and 34 Steppe on my calculator.
>>59102
By 'single population' I mean the same what you described here , as also this is true that for aasi that it is considered a "ghost population" because we don't have much idea about them , people used "paniyas" as markers of aasi which is not 100% truth as aasi of gangetics ,south and north could be very much different
>>59106
>21 aasi
It is relatively low for brahmins and for rajasthanis , I have found rajasthan to be a very amusing place
>High steppe
Pareekh Brahmins and jaats
>High zagros
Marwari rajputs , rabari , gujjars
>High AASI
Baniyas , kayastha, meghwal(SCs)
Many obcs and ST have low aasi and high steppe zagros here
Highest vegetarians but still one of the tallest in india
Very interesting tbh
>>59108
>aasi of gangetics ,south and north could be very much different
Yes, but with the case of kashmir, due to it's remoteness, the genetics would be the most different compared to to the othe AASIs, due to founders effect. So, the kashmir execption as you discussed above can be somewhat ignored or pushed aside as an exception. Do you know of any other counterexamples? I.e groups that are fair skinned and (relatively) low R1a and lower steppe than haryana and HP.
>>59111
If not, this would (almost) validate the aryan invasion theory >>59076, with the only gap being steppe-R1a correspondence not being conculsively linked.
>>59109
Yup. Also there are Meenas who are classified as Scheduled Tribe but they score like Baniyas and Meghwals rather than Bhils who are another Tribal group.
How do Bishnois score like though. Never seen a Bishnoi sample so far. From what I've heard they're mostly Jaats and few of them were originally Rajputs.
>>59117
Don't know about bishnoi tbh , as far as I know they are STs right?
I ve read on Twitter that north Gujarat and sindh and rajasthan has somewhat similar ancestral components
